Transforming the B2B Buyer Journey

0:00 hello and welcome back to the modern

0:02 customer podcast i am your host blake

0:05 morgan

0:06 my guest today on the show is mike

0:09 Marcellin he is the senior vice president

0:12 and cmo at juniper

0:15 mike leads the global marketing team

0:17 responsible for marketing juniper's

0:19 product and services portfolio and

0:22 stewarding the brand driving preference

0:24 for juniper in the market training its

0:27 partners and sales teams

0:29 and developing a differentiated digital

0:31 experience for its customers prior to

0:34 joining juniper in 2010 mike served as a

0:38 vice president of global managed

0:39 solutions for verizon today mike and i

0:42 are talking about a guided b2b buying

0:45 experience a blend of digital

0:48 self-service and sales supported i know

0:51 you will enjoy our conversation let's go

0:55 [Music]

1:03 mike welcome to the modern customer

1:06 podcast how is your day going in los

1:08 gatos california

1:10 going great blake it's good to see you

1:12 i'm doing well doing well

1:14 so good to see you

1:16 it's been an interesting three years for

1:18 everybody in the business world it's

1:20 been a good time for customer experience

1:22 and it's been a really good time for

1:24 companies that are comfortable with

1:26 digital customer experiences can you

1:29 just talk about

1:30 what you've been up to in the last three

1:32 years

1:34 leading marketing strategy for juniper

1:36 and what's changed as opposed to when

1:39 you were leading pre-coven

1:42 absolutely yeah i mean obviously yeah

1:44 the world has changed for sure in so

1:46 many different ways and you know i think

1:48 probably

1:49 accelerated a journey that we were

1:51 already on to to be honest um i think at

1:54 juniper you know we have uh some very

1:58 large competitors

1:59 who in some ways will always be able to

2:01 outspend us so we have to have uh you

2:04 know better engagement approach and

2:06 ultimately i think we need to outsmart

2:08 them um and how we approach uh working

2:11 with our customers

2:13 um and so uh you know really our journey

2:15 has been about creating

2:18 a variety of different digital touch

2:20 points you know the the term i like to

2:22 use is that experience is the new

2:23 product

2:24 um

2:25 and you know basically coming from a

2:27 technology company a product based

2:29 company um that's a big revelation uh

2:32 for us to say wait a second you know

2:33 products are great you have to have

2:35 great products but really how you engage

2:38 with customers how they perceive you as

2:40 a company the people that they work with

2:42 and how they even perceive and the

2:44 experience from the products

2:46 becomes the most important thing

2:48 and so that's really what we've been

2:50 investing in uh over the last few years

2:52 uh we actually our company tagline is

2:55 driven by experience so we've really

2:56 taken it to heart it truly is our true

2:59 north to provide that differentiated

3:01 experience to our customers

3:02 so mike your company and i worked

3:05 together during covid to do a virtual

3:07 event i remember

3:08 interviewing people like the cto of

3:11 british telecom and hearing about what

3:14 the role is of your product

3:16 my understanding is that you help

3:18 provide the network from these major

3:20 telecoms which is a really critical

3:22 product but for our audience listening

3:24 and watching can you describe what it is

3:27 that you sell and who you sell to

3:30 yeah absolutely um and you're right

3:32 probably so juniper's about 25 years old

3:35 we first started when the worldwide web

3:38 is just getting off the ground and it

3:39 was buckling under the growth of traffic

3:42 and all the businesses coming onto the

3:43 web and all of that so our first set of

3:46 customers were those big telecom

3:47 operators the big isps and we were

3:50 essentially the the infrastructure that

3:52 is the internet backbone

3:54 so if you think about the little router

3:55 you have in your house to connect your

3:57 home internet think about that but much

3:59 much larger with much more scale and

4:01 since then we've broadened into kind of

4:04 powering the similar infrastructure for

4:06 big data centers and cloud environments

4:08 uh as well as security uh which is so

4:11 important now to everything we do from a

4:13 networking perspective so those are the

4:15 products that we sell and over the past

4:17 handful of years

4:19 as you said you know telecom operators

4:21 the network is their business so there's

4:22 no confusion among them

4:24 about how important we are to them but

4:27 what you've seen interestingly over the

4:28 last five six seven years is almost

4:31 every other enterprise in all industries

4:34 recognize the importance of digital they

4:37 are transforming their own operations

4:39 and their own way that they engage with

4:41 their customers so the products and

4:43 solutions that we have now are not just

4:45 the the purview of the big telcos and

4:48 cloud providers but every single

4:50 enterprise around the world who sees

4:51 that their network and securing that

4:53 network is of paramount importance to

4:55 their business

4:57 seems like this would be a hard product

4:59 to sell to say the least it's an

5:02 expensive product i would imagine it is

5:04 complicated how do you find those buyers

5:07 and again is your buyer the cto

5:10 yeah great question yeah it's usually

5:12 the cto or the cio depending on the

5:14 company and how they're kind of um

5:16 constructed um and so it's that it

5:19 organization and you know they're

5:21 they're looking to

5:23 scale they're looking to provide great

5:25 experiences to their employees you know

5:27 if the employees show up to work and the

5:28 network's not working that's kind of a

5:30 productivity killer

5:32 but increasingly also to their end users

5:35 you know their website needs to be up

5:37 because many companies conduct you know

5:40 millions or billions of dollars over

5:42 their website um you know how they

5:44 engage in customer service

5:45 which now you're seeing kind of omni

5:47 channel customer service the network is

5:49 at the heart of that and so it's really

5:51 become mission critical to every single

5:54 business but you're right you know the

5:55 it folks know us um some of the buying

5:58 centers are growing um so some of the

6:00 lines of business you know that

6:02 recognize that hey the network is

6:04 critical how we engage with our

6:05 customers

6:06 start to become more influential but

6:08 yeah the it organization is the core of

6:11 who we typically sell to

6:12 all right so let's talk about a blended

6:15 buyer journey what does that mean to you

6:19 well that's a great question and that's

6:20 something that we're seeing as

6:22 increasingly as an opportunity for us so

6:25 you know i think we've all heard in b2b

6:27 the stats about how you know people um

6:30 you know get 50 60 down the buying

6:32 journey before they ever engage a

6:34 salesperson and of course the truth is

6:36 it's not truly linear it's not as if

6:38 they go 60 and it's like okay now i'll

6:39 engage but they are absolutely getting

6:42 information from certainly the company's

6:44 website but from third-party websites

6:47 from their peers from industry analysts

6:49 from just a variety of different sources

6:51 so the notion that we can control that

6:53 buyer's journey you know as maybe we

6:55 used to 20 years ago

6:57 that's gone um and so what that means is

7:00 we need to be ready to engage with the

7:02 right kinds of information

7:04 through the right channels whenever

7:06 they're ready to engage with us so they

7:08 may come to our website before wanting

7:09 to really deal with the person or maybe

7:11 they have a relationship with one of our

7:13 salespeople and that's where they start

7:15 and so what we're in the process of

7:17 doing now is transforming that

7:19 experience on our website giving them a

7:22 variety of different content uh types

7:25 you know whether it's you know immersive

7:27 video for thought leadership to very

7:30 hard working you know data sheets about

7:32 our products if that's where they are in

7:34 the journey

7:35 and wanting to do that uh all throughout

7:38 the journey and if they

7:39 go you know offline and wanted to work

7:41 with the salesperson we need to know

7:43 what they did online and similarly if

7:45 they come online

7:46 and are expecting to engage with us it's

7:49 super helpful for us to know what

7:50 interactions they've had with juniper

7:52 people and so making sure that

7:54 hand-in-glove journey from digital to

7:57 people and back and forth is as seamless

8:00 as possible so we've architected that

8:02 that buying journey as best as we can

8:05 define it but we also know it's got to

8:07 be very very kind of

8:09 flexible with how they want to engage

8:11 with us at any moment in time

8:13 understood and when we think about the

8:15 blended buyer journey it seems to me the

8:17 first thing to understand is what you

8:19 just said mike that you are not in

8:21 control of the buyer's journey anymore

8:23 it is not linear it is a bit all over

8:25 the place so what advice would you have

8:28 for other b2b cmos listening that are at

8:31 the very beginning of realizing they're

8:34 not in control they have to create a

8:36 blended buyer journey and how do you

8:38 even

8:39 start to create a road map for that

8:42 yeah it's a great question and it's it's

8:44 certainly something i mean we certainly

8:45 haven't you know cracked the code

8:46 entirely but i would tell you that when

8:48 i when i started as the cmo here i made

8:51 two big bets

8:52 one was on data

8:55 and that includes you know hiring a team

8:56 a data scientist that means really

8:59 making sure that we understand as much

9:01 as we possibly can

9:02 about our buyer

9:04 about where they're getting influence

9:05 about where they are in the journey

9:06 about what they need from us

9:09 and again because everything's gone

9:11 digital that means there's data

9:13 everywhere as which we all know um but

9:15 the challenge is if you don't know how

9:16 to make sense of that and and harness

9:18 that then it's worthless to you so let's

9:20 get grounded in data

9:22 and then the second big bet was around

9:25 i'll call it martech marketing

9:27 technology kind of the tech stack that

9:29 we now use from our website to the tools

9:32 that we use to understand buyer intent

9:35 to how we engage with customers

9:37 individually and at an account level so

9:39 there's so many different tools out

9:41 there you really got to get your arms

9:42 around what tools are going to work for

9:44 you to give you that complete view of

9:46 the customer

9:48 and to allow you to quickly zig and zag

9:51 when they come in maybe in an unexpected

9:53 place um or take it take

9:55 their own journey in a different

9:57 direction uh again you need to be able

9:59 to support what they're looking for at

10:00 any moment in time

10:02 right so you're talking about leads

10:04 you're talking about data how closely do

10:06 you work with the other

10:08 leaders at juniper and would you just

10:10 describe how you share data and how you

10:13 collaborate with the other leaders that

10:15 impact what you do and you impact what

10:17 they do

10:18 absolutely uh and that's been an

10:20 essential i think element of what i

10:22 think is a successful customer

10:24 engagement strategy so we have a

10:26 corporate wide customer experience

10:28 initiative and when i say that what that

10:30 means is you know we do okrs lots of

10:32 companies do whatever kind of kpis or

10:34 okrs and we have three primary

10:36 objectives at the company level one of

10:39 those three is creating a differentiated

10:41 and remarkable customer experience so

10:43 that tells you the level of importance

10:45 that we place on that um and so

10:48 as part of that pretty much every single

10:50 function um has some skin in the game on

10:53 making that successful and we each have

10:56 our own okrs about our part of the

10:59 customer journey and the role we play in

11:01 creating that amazing customer

11:03 experience

11:04 and then how we manage that is through

11:07 i'd say you know pretty rigorous

11:09 governance um you know which sounds

11:11 super kind of corporate and bureaucratic

11:13 but really it just means we've got our

11:15 set of objectives we get together pretty

11:18 frequently

11:19 and look at all elements of the customer

11:21 experience

11:22 where we need to make progress what's

11:24 maybe not working how how we intended

11:26 and then also just making sure that we

11:28 all know what each is doing

11:30 because there are so many different

11:31 touch points that if we're all running

11:33 off in our own directions maybe even if

11:35 we're all doing good things if it's not

11:37 coordinated the customer is going to see

11:38 that it's not coordinated so i'd say

11:41 that's really been the key to our

11:42 success we don't have a chief customer

11:44 officer you know someone in name that is

11:47 just tasked with that so really it comes

11:49 down to our head of global customer

11:52 service and support

11:53 marketing

11:54 certainly our sales organization

11:56 and many of the support functions that

11:58 go along with all of those uh areas so

12:01 being super coordinated

12:02 looking at the data looking at that

12:04 experience and then you know making

12:06 adjustments when we need to

12:08 something i've been interested in lately

12:09 is just measurement how we measure

12:11 success

12:12 and i've had the pleasure of

12:14 interviewing the creator of net promoter

12:16 score a few times fred reichel and he

12:18 has this new metric out called earned

12:19 growth rate and basically what he says

12:22 is that the customers you get through

12:24 word of mouth are very much more

12:26 valuable than customers you would

12:28 acquire through traditional marketing

12:29 they spend more money all those

12:31 customers you acquire through like super

12:33 bowl ads and

12:35 billboards actually can cause damage to

12:38 the brand they spend less money they're

12:39 less loyal has that been your experience

12:42 um as far as the value of the customers

12:45 the more valuable ones being referrals

12:49 well i certainly you know it's an

12:51 interesting kind of juxtaposition you

12:52 know the is it are they less valuable if

12:55 you acquire them through other means i

12:56 will tell you

12:58 one thing's for sure that people trust

13:01 quote people they know people they trust

13:04 so that so that's referrals that means

13:06 you know i'm a cio in this company um i

13:10 am in a you know cio community and i

13:12 know other cios

13:14 you know their

13:15 opinions their direction their

13:17 experience with

13:18 juniper or anyone else is going to weigh

13:20 pretty heavily

13:22 on making that decision so i would say

13:24 that is absolutely at the top of the

13:26 list

13:27 and

13:28 you know certainly that's why we believe

13:31 it's so critical

13:32 to have you know customer communities we

13:35 have you know communities by industry

13:37 and we've really invested a lot in that

13:39 um as much for the benefit of those as

13:42 that are part of the community as it is

13:44 to us we love being a fly on the wall

13:45 when you know 10 healthcare cios get

13:48 together and start talking about their

13:50 big challenges because that's gold for

13:51 us but it's also gold for them to give

13:54 them a forum and a platform even if

13:55 they're not talking about juniper just

13:56 like to compare notes and to see what um

13:59 you know what's working for them and the

14:01 challenges that they face

14:03 so yeah creating those forums is another

14:05 way that we can provide value beyond

14:07 just hey we have great products go you

14:09 know buy our products it's we're giving

14:11 you a forum to engage with your industry

14:13 peers and to solve the challenges that

14:15 you're facing every day

14:17 yeah absolutely and i find with this

14:19 industry in particular they're so hungry

14:21 executives are so hungry to share

14:23 information because

14:24 it is hard to find good content at least

14:27 from a customer experience perspective

14:30 do you do a lot of

14:32 information seeking yourself

14:34 from other marketing

14:36 thought leadership firms or other cmos

14:39 on customer experience or how have you

14:41 acquired your wealth of knowledge yeah i

14:44 i am in i'm in actually one forum

14:47 specifically for cmos uh it's a global

14:49 forum of some you know top cmos so

14:52 that's just always a great calibration

14:53 you know when you think you're man i'm

14:55 facing this challenge you know can

14:57 anyone else be facing this and then you

14:58 find out that half the other people are

15:00 are um and can give you some good good

15:02 guidance and thoughts so that's one and

15:04 then i actually am involved in another

15:06 forum specifically around customer

15:08 experience with some other with some

15:10 cheap customer officers as i said we

15:12 don't have someone in that title per se

15:14 but i'm able to be a part of that

15:16 because of you know certainly the role

15:18 that marketing plays in creating a great

15:20 customer experience is huge so just

15:23 being able to see how some very large

15:26 companies and some smaller companies

15:28 think about uh how they do customer

15:30 experience think about how they measure

15:32 it to your point you know just getting

15:34 all those learnings again i don't know

15:35 that anyone has cracked the code but

15:36 there's some really good work going on

15:38 so learning from other leaders

15:40 is is hugely valuable to me

15:43 i imagine that a lot of our listeners

15:45 and viewers are tuning in because

15:46 they're interested in what it's like to

15:48 be a marketing leader at a complicated

15:51 tech company it's not an easy product

15:53 that you sell

15:55 you have to create the language for it

15:56 you have to be at the right place at the

15:58 right time how do you even begin to

16:00 sketch out the vision for the

16:03 communication communicating the value of

16:05 the product doing it in the right

16:07 channels what tools have you used to be

16:10 successful in

16:12 drawing that whole vision and image for

16:14 how the product can

16:16 change the world

16:17 for these customers

16:19 yeah what a great question blake um and

16:22 it is a challenge i will tell you um

16:24 because the interesting thing is you

16:26 know for us our experience has been that

16:28 when we get engaged with someone and

16:29 when they start to use our technology

16:31 then we have a i'd say if you will a

16:33 lower level conversation a more detailed

16:35 like here's all the great bits and bobs

16:37 of the technology but to get to that

16:39 point

16:40 you were probably many years in the

16:42 journey

16:43 because when we show up on the doorstep

16:45 of a fortune 500 company that maybe

16:47 we're not working with

16:49 they first want to know why should i

16:50 even be talking to you i have typically

16:53 what we have you know the the solutions

16:55 that we have

16:56 they already have something in place

16:57 today they have a wi-fi network they

16:59 have a security infrastructure they have

17:00 a data center you know they have those

17:02 things rarely sometimes you'll get a

17:04 green field but generally they have

17:06 something and so really it's first why

17:08 should i even be working with juniper um

17:11 and that's where i talked about

17:13 this maniacal focus on customer

17:15 experience because i think that actually

17:17 cuts above

17:18 the um you know here's what my

17:21 you know device does or my software can

17:23 do for you we'll get to that

17:24 conversation hopefully um but really

17:27 it's about we have a different approach

17:29 we're thinking about um you know your

17:31 experience of both the people that run

17:33 the network as well as the end users uh

17:36 who who are leveraging the network

17:38 and that's actually a really interesting

17:40 starting point because when you come to

17:42 a cio and you say

17:43 you know we're able to reduce trouble

17:46 tickets on networks by over 90 with our

17:49 ai technology like oh well that's

17:51 interesting what if my team had 90 of

17:53 their time back and wasn't just chasing

17:55 wi-fi tickets but actually able to think

17:57 about what's around the corner or adding

17:59 more value to the business

18:00 that's a different level of conversation

18:02 um and and one that generally will get

18:05 the c-suite interested um and then

18:08 once you have them interested then you

18:09 start working with their teams and you

18:11 start doing your you know here's what

18:12 our products do versus other products

18:14 here so we have advantages and you have

18:16 to have the

18:17 technology team fall in love with your

18:18 product

18:19 so having those two altitudes has really

18:21 been fundamental to our success

18:24 mike as a leader do you think that

18:26 understanding and saying that your

18:29 product is a commodity i mean is that

18:31 something you guys talk about because i

18:32 know that requires like quite a bit of

18:34 humility to say hey our product there

18:36 are other people that make our product

18:37 how are we going to elevate the

18:38 experience to be different

18:41 yeah i mean look i i think if if you had

18:43 one of our engineers on on the line

18:45 today they would tell you the 10 reasons

18:47 why our products not a commodity and why

18:50 we do this better this is more unique

18:52 whatever and look there's some truth to

18:54 that i mean we have real proof points on

18:56 how we built a better mousetrap in many

18:58 cases but i think to your point like

19:01 because because everyone is using

19:04 something even if our something is 10

19:06 better um you still have to explain to

19:08 them why even that 10 or 20 percent

19:10 better

19:11 is worth the disruption of change

19:13 because there's no matter what changing

19:15 from one technology or one vendor to

19:17 another there's some level of disruption

19:19 there's some level of risk

19:21 so i have to believe that what's on the

19:22 other side is so much better that maybe

19:25 there's some technology differences

19:27 maybe the price is competitive or even

19:28 better but there has to be something

19:30 more and so i think if anything

19:32 that acknowledgement has pushed us

19:34 harder and to really come up and

19:37 crystallize what it means to work with

19:39 juniper beyond just our product details

19:42 what it means to work with us how we're

19:44 different than the competition how we're

19:45 going to surround our customers to make

19:47 sure they're successful

19:49 and so that i think it just pushes us uh

19:52 and then like i said hopefully we get to

19:53 the technology conversation we can give

19:55 you you know the deep dive into why it's

19:57 better and that's with the the

19:59 networking teams who are gonna run our

20:00 stuff through its paces but you're never

20:02 gonna get to that conversation if you

20:04 haven't you know kind of did the why

20:06 should i even be thinking about a

20:08 different different vendor a different

20:09 answer

20:11 so my part of a leader's job is to

20:13 obviously deliver the strategy that's

20:15 necessary now but it's also to keep your

20:18 eye on the future and the horizon

20:20 so i would be interested to hear what

20:22 some of the trends are that you're

20:23 interested in uh for the future of

20:26 marketing at juniper

20:28 yeah um well you know i touched on one

20:31 that i think is interesting it's

20:33 interesting because it's part of our

20:34 product portfolio but it's certainly

20:36 across many many more areas and that's

20:38 ai and ml where everyone's thinking

20:40 about okay how do i use this is it

20:42 really going to move the ball forward

20:44 do i have a concern about what it's

20:46 going to do to jobs i mean there's so

20:47 many different elements of that but make

20:50 no mistake i think you know

20:52 optimizing operations and optimizing in

20:55 our case end-user experiences through ai

20:57 is a way to provide a better solution

21:01 and one that again will free up teams to

21:04 focus on what they really want to focus

21:06 on so that's a big one and we're also

21:08 starting to leverage it within the

21:09 marketing discipline as well um you know

21:11 how do we really anticipate buyer needs

21:15 how do we coordinate uh and and

21:18 kind of cross cross hatch of the data

21:20 that we have to make some decisions or

21:23 at least to you know reach out to the

21:25 customer at the right time

21:27 so i think that's an an interesting um

21:29 space to watch

21:30 one of the other ones that i would say

21:32 is important to us from a marketing

21:34 perspective from a company perspective

21:36 and from a world perspective is

21:37 sustainability um and you know being in

21:40 the i.t industry

21:42 obviously we like so many others are

21:44 part of the problem i mean the good news

21:47 is our products have become so much more

21:49 power efficient over the years

21:51 the bad news if you want to look at it

21:52 this way is the demand for

21:55 data and bandwidth and all the things

21:57 that we facilitate continues to grow um

22:01 unabated

22:02 so the demand is there we're trying to

22:04 keep up with that by by creating more

22:06 sustainable solutions but i think as we

22:08 all know this is going to become a

22:10 conversation that is going to continue

22:12 to be

22:13 quite active and quite urgent over the

22:15 coming few years we actually just made

22:16 an announcement earlier this year that

22:18 we're going to be carbon neutral for our

22:19 own operations by 2025 which is a an

22:22 aggressive statement to make but one

22:24 that i feel really proud of that we're

22:27 able to to lead our industry uh along

22:29 those lines and i think ultimately our

22:32 customers we see this the number of rfps

22:34 that customers are coming to us every

22:36 single year

22:38 saying what are you doing around

22:40 sustainability give us your targets give

22:42 us your progress against those targets

22:44 if we think very broadly about your

22:46 passion around customer experience this

22:48 is going to become an element of that

22:50 and um we want to make sure that we're

22:52 in the right leadership position to do

22:55 the right things for the planet but also

22:57 to make sure we're helping our customers

22:59 meet their their climate goals

23:01 that's very exciting and actually after

23:03 the podcast we can talk about

23:05 a company i'm a part of now that is

23:08 helping to helping the utilities

23:09 industry transform um in light of this

23:12 and electrification

23:14 all right so now is time for the fun

23:16 part the rapid fire mike are you ready

23:18 to take these rapid fire questions

23:20 i don't know am i let's do it let's give

23:22 a we'll find out um all right you

23:24 are stuck on an island you have access

23:27 to water you can bring one other food

23:29 and one other drink what are they

23:31 okay

23:32 the food is pizza and you get it with

23:35 everything so that every day you could

23:37 pick some toppings off and you'd have

23:38 different variety every single day i've

23:40 thought about this one um

23:42 drink hmm so i have water so i'm good on

23:45 the hydration so then it's just

23:46 something uh maybe something light and

23:48 fruity because at least for the first

23:50 month it would be fun and then it would

23:52 get pretty bad

23:53 we'll go with that okay awesome if you

23:56 could have lunch with anybody dead or

23:58 alive who would it be

24:00 uh prince

24:02 okay cool my favorite artist gone too

24:05 soon but uh yeah yeah he was an amazing

24:08 amazing musician absolutely what is one

24:11 tool or resource you use to get through

24:14 during covit for self-development

24:17 oh self-development um as opposed to all

24:19 the hours wasted binging

24:21 um huh

24:23 good question i may have to

24:25 self-development

24:26 i mean i certainly found myself you know

24:29 more

24:30 engaged with an industry conversation

24:31 because you're staring at your computer

24:33 all the time

24:34 so engaging in we talked a little bit

24:36 about kind of cxo forums and stuff um

24:39 luckily a lot of them came with a

24:41 mixologist or a wine tasting but but

24:43 i'll tell you that worked because you

24:45 really got to have some great

24:45 conversations with people

24:47 that you might not otherwise see because

24:49 you had to trudge across town to go to a

24:51 dinner at 6 30 and fight traffic now you

24:53 just flip your laptop up in your kitchen

24:55 and you're talking to

24:57 industry peers so i'd say that kind of

24:59 engagement mechanism has been really

25:00 valuable for me personally and then for

25:02 us as a company and engaging with our

25:04 customers too

25:05 absolutely and you might have an easy

25:07 answer to this next one because you've

25:09 already sort of mentioned it but what is

25:10 the greatest musician or band of all

25:12 time

25:13 well yeah i had to say prince on that

25:16 one so prolific it's so varied over so

25:18 much time so yeah absolutely um what is

25:21 your most embarrassing work moment

25:26 man

25:27 um

25:31 well okay this is going way back this is

25:34 literally my first day

25:36 i started uh right out of college with

25:38 pricewaterhouseconsulting

25:40 now it's pwc it's price waterhouse then

25:42 and you know your first day you're

25:44 thinking about all these things you've

25:44 got all these things you have to go do

25:45 and blah blah and i and i left the house

25:47 with my fly down

25:49 um so i i think i caught it pretty

25:52 quickly um but that could have been

25:54 because you've got so much else in your

25:55 mind you're not doing the very basic

25:57 things yep happens to everybody you know

26:00 okay just does all right well mike this

26:02 has been really fun and i'm so glad we

26:04 got to chat

26:06 and uh if people want to learn more

26:08 about juniper or you where can they do

26:10 that

26:12 www.juniper.net

26:14 all right i'm on linkedin as well all

26:16 right great well

26:18 thank you for joining me uh all of you

26:20 have been tuning in to the modern

26:22 customer podcast if you have time leave

26:24 me a review on apple so more people can

26:26 find this growing show

26:28 and until next time thanks

26:30 [Music]

26:42 you