Be Bold Podcast - Episode 1: Importance of Workforce Diversity

0:00 being a person of color definitely has different

0:05 challenges as well as opportunities in one's career access not only to basic

0:11 things potentially like broadband or technology but also access to people and networks

0:17 that you know that would that would bring you along or who might encourage you or teach you

0:23 to follow a certain path in your life [Music]

0:30 [Applause] [Music]

0:37 welcome to the debut episode of be bold my name is manoj liyaniwas

0:42 chief operating officer juniper networks this new series aims to go beyond

0:47 technology go beyond speeds and feeds and instead focus on the people driving

0:52 the technology and business innovation chris i'm excited to have you on today's show

0:59 you have had an amazing career trajectory starting from aol rsa then

1:05 going into cisco and eventually now at microsoft walk us through a career trajectory

1:11 um thank you for having me with you i uh pleasure to be your inaugural guest for

1:16 your your podcast and i appreciate you taking on a challenging topic you know one that is top of mind

1:24 for so many of us but it's certainly an incredibly important topic and you know a challenge that we all got to go

1:30 through and solve you know if you think about it if i think about my own career trajectory as

1:35 you mentioned you know today i'm at microsoft i lead our business development our strategy our ventures teams spent a lot of my career you and i

1:42 know each other from you know me being in cyber security uh so i've had a great career in and around that

1:48 you know i will tell you though my first introduction to technology it's kind of a little bit of a fun story you know

1:53 like my i had a commodore 64 you know when i was a kid and uh you know for many of you who are you know over 45 you

2:01 can relate to this uh you know this thing had a had a disk drive that was about a foot and a half long

2:07 and six inches well it was a huge thing like i just remember this huge disk drive

2:12 huge cpu monitor keyboard all separate components um and i you know of course like a young

2:20 boy i did a lot of you know playing games on it and things like that but it was my first introduction to to

2:26 technology uh you know sort of as we know it you know today and i learned a program in basic on the

2:33 machine and you know you can you know write little you know write you know little different you know pieces of code

2:39 it was a different very different than what we were used to you know having like like the 3.5 and

2:44 actually the five and a half inch floppy disks in uh in those days and i will tell you um it got me sort of

2:51 interested early on in technology and look in my house man like i remember this like

2:58 literally that computer sat in the middle of our living room i grew up from cleveland and

3:04 there were no other furniture in the living room and like that like but that was a priority that got made at

3:10 some point in time in my family's journey and i'm thankful for that um and

3:17 you know when you start talking about you know diverse workforces and people coming from underrepresented communities

3:24 think of that image of the kid in his or her living room with maybe all they've got is an

3:31 opportunity to have a machine if they've got that opportunity and so those are some of the things that

3:36 we're up against as we you know seek tackle leveling the playing field for people from a variety of different backgrounds

3:44 uh in tech you know this is fabulous to hear that we are both dating ourselves

3:49 you know the commodore technology uh what was that you know do you remember that specific age when you said like

3:56 this is it for me you know i'm gonna go down this path this is this is it was it like very early you know you know before

4:03 your teens or was it in the teens you know can you give us an idea of when i think when i had that commodore i want

4:09 to say i was probably i don't know i definitely wasn't in my team i think i was early maybe pre-teen age at that

4:15 point um but you know there was never a like i would for me there was never a seminal moment where i was like okay i'm gonna

4:21 go be in tech i mean i you know back when when i was when i was growing up i i wasn't sure

4:27 what sort of career opportunities would be available to me and like i literally didn't know

4:34 anyone in a technology career when i was growing up i mean most of the people i knew were

4:41 working people and they worked in you know manufacturing plants

4:47 you know they worked in offices schools you know you name it they were service

4:52 people many of them so you know my father was in manufacturing my mother was uh you know she worked in a hospital

4:59 uh as an admin so i didn't know i didn't know anyone until much later in my life

5:04 till probably college that was actually in tech like that road software

5:09 or did anything with with technology i mean and that was a different time too i mean we're talking about many you know

5:16 many many years ago at this point in time and some things things have changed but growing up i

5:22 didn't have access to to these kinds of career you know these sort of career opportunities and so therefore

5:29 you know when i had a commodore 64 i wasn't thinking oh wow there's this great career that one could have as a

5:34 developer um and and but over time you know after college is when

5:40 you know that kind of that sort of set of opportunities really started to open up for me

5:46 you bring up a very good point i mean in those days there were different industries and tech wasn't actually in

5:51 the forefront right you got interested in computers you got interested in you know how things come together you know

5:56 in an automated fashion and then you applied the two together right but these days things are different right you know

6:02 tech is right and forefront of everything right your company microsoft apple all these companies are what

6:08 people you know kind of thrive to be part of right and when you're growing up they see all the equipment and the

6:14 gadgets they're playing with so tech is a little bit more forefront to everybody including everybody in the you know

6:20 underrepresented communities but still tech is not a go-to career you know from an unrepresented community point of view

6:27 how we how can we look at getting people to embrace this as a go-to carrier uh especially if you look

6:33 at the the communities in the minority you know i think it starts menos early in like i think we need to start early

6:40 in the life cycle for a lot of people you know as children you know look the reality is and this is from some of our

6:45 own work you know we estimate that like in the us alone there are still nearly like about 14 and

6:52 a half million households that don't have access to broadband to broadband right something that we all take for

6:59 granted you know we in silicon valley all take for granted uh in our lives but

7:04 there's just and and unfortunately as you pointed out earlier it's underrepresented minority communities

7:10 that are disproportionately represented in that 14 and a half million household

7:15 number and so you know first thing we've got to do is level the playing field in fact it's one of the reasons why microsoft

7:22 actually we actually have a broadband initiative to try to bring broadband into communities that don't

7:28 have access because it starts very early like if you don't have access to technology if you don't have access to

7:35 you know to the internet if you don't have access to the cloud it becomes much much harder

7:40 for you to get on the path of a career in that direction that's the hard part and that's that's a

7:46 part of the work that needs to be done and then from there how do we make sure that curriculum in schools

7:52 is such that people who are in a variety of different school environments have access to

7:58 education that would set them on the path for a career in technology and that's at all levels right that's you

8:04 know primary school that's secondary school high school and then obviously

8:09 on to college and making sure that we have education we have skilling available so that people can

8:15 you know sort of people have as much access to you know sort of learning how to code for example as they might to learning

8:21 how to type when they're in high school like i remember taking a typing class when i was in high school but you know

8:27 why why wouldn't we make sure that you know sort of develop sort of learning how to code is something that's as

8:34 sort of part of it or considered as much part of our educational experience as

8:39 learning how to type or you know learning math reading science you know any of the other subjects that we

8:46 expect in in our early educations it's like so i would say it starts with the

8:52 foundation and then obviously as as people get older as people move through the the

8:57 educational process making sure that there's availability for people to learn and then on-ramps

9:04 into technical careers because clearly we've got a need there's so much demand for technology you know

9:10 people in technology careers that we're not meeting certainly not meeting with people who

9:16 are born and raised here in the u.s and i think that's a huge missed opportunity for so many you know so many people look

9:23 my own you know sort of the place i spent a lot of my career in cyber security you know we're we always you

9:28 know there's there's literally millions of jobs that are not filled today and and there will be millions of jobs that don't get filled over time

9:35 because people don't have access to education about it they can't get the right skill sets

9:41 and uh that's a problem we got to solve well said chris if i summarize you i

9:46 think i heard two aspects one is access which all of us can do something about it whether it's a microsoft it's a

9:52 juniper whether it's a cisco whether it's an apple all of us can do something about that right for changing that the

9:57 second thing is the curriculum having more emphasis on things like you know programming maybe even cyber security

10:04 elements like that so people get a little bit more better exposure about things just like math and physics and

10:09 everything so the combination of the two well said chris i'm going to take you down a different path now i think you graduated from

10:16 princeton if i remember correctly and then you had an mba from howard business school and then you are this like

10:23 brand new kid getting into the first job out of you know all these wonderful accomplishments you've done in education

10:30 getting into your first job so what was your first job you know out of college and like how was the

10:35 how did you how did the cultural embracement happen in that first job you know from your perspective

10:41 you know my first job actually i was a i was a consultant and uh you know there was a

10:46 little bit of of tech work it was more mathematics and and you know statistics and

10:53 and analytics in those days than than writing code uh it wasn't actually until

10:58 a little bit later when i ended up founding a company i founded a company called surveillance with you know a number of my colleagues

11:06 from that consulting firm and that's really what sort of got me going in uh in technology you know again

11:12 that's uh you know in today's world it's very normal to to do a startup when you're young

11:18 uh in those days that was a little bit and i was on the east coast in those days in those days that was a little bit

11:24 unique you know that wasn't something that a lot of people were doing but it was it was a tremendous amount of fun

11:30 and uh you know that was my first foray into technology um we also were a cyber security company

11:37 which at the time it wasn't called cyber security i always tell people that it's like one of the few people you'll meet

11:43 who's actually been in cyber security longer than we've actually called it cyber security because we used to call

11:48 it itsec or infosec um but you know those are but you know any

11:55 industry has that story where there's origins that you know take on you know different meaning over time and and uh

12:01 you know obviously today cyber security is a it's a much different part of our you know our diaspora in the tech

12:08 landscape and certainly a huge thing that a huge topic area for companies of all types at

12:15 this point fast forward now you know from those days you know those beginnings where

12:21 you're just getting involved in technology cyber security i think it looks like you're a cyber security person at heart

12:28 right from the beginning and you're still a strong cyber security advocate and now fast forward all the way to

12:33 microsoft you are leading one of the top companies in the world in terms of where the company is looking at from a

12:39 strategic direction you know what are the areas to develop i mean it's a role very few people in the world can't ever

12:45 even dream to be you know driving in such a role you know

12:50 and when i look at the comparison of your trajectory i mean what were the important things which helped you figure

12:56 things out to build your career tours here is there a secret sauce which you can share with all of us

13:02 you know a couple of things that i think are really important that that you know

13:08 i have gotten i got advice on this early in my career one of the most important things to think about when you're

13:13 developing a career is to not think of your career as a linear

13:19 function that goes up and to the right i have always thought of my career as a little bit more like a

13:26 tapestry or a mosaic where you need to gather different experiences

13:31 that suit you wherever you may be in your journey and you have a general perspective on

13:37 where you want to go in your career but be willing to do things that are going to teach you

13:43 um be willing to take on opportunities where you're going to learn and you know

13:48 ultimately after you step back from the career it's the picture becomes more clear

13:54 i think a mistake some people make is that the because when you pick it when you're early in your career

14:00 you just come out of school right and that is a linear function that goes up and to the right you know you go from grade to grade grade you go from high

14:06 school to college and you go through and then you get a job and but but once you reach the work world

14:13 it's a little different and you know while you want to push yourself and achieve

14:19 it's you you need to make sure you're learning you're taking on new challenges you're building your skill set you're

14:25 building your networks you know sometimes it there is a there

14:31 is a factor of being in the right place at the right time that certainly matters in anybody's life or their career

14:38 um you know certainly there's a the effort you put it's like anything else in life the efforts you put into your

14:43 career uh you will you know it correlates to you know in a big way to what you get

14:48 back out of it but for me i've tried to focus on learning

14:54 along the way on taking on new challenges sometimes i've taken on challenges that

14:59 other people might not have been interested in taking on i'll give you here's a good example

15:05 early in my career i took an assignment to go to this this is i had never been out of the country

15:11 after college never been like from ohio didn't go out of the country except for

15:18 maybe like niagara falls or something like that and if you're from ohio that's like around the corner um

15:24 but i took an assignment to go to korea earlier in my early in my career

15:29 and i remember being on the plane with my manager at the time and uh he said he said uh

15:36 oh um you know how's the flight so far are you excited about the the

15:42 the project we're gonna go do and i said yeah and i just got my passport and i'm really excited and he looked at me like

15:49 in shock and he he said what do you mean did you get did your passport expire and i said no x

15:55 just got my passport i've never had one before until now as an adult when i got my first passport

16:02 and and but you know i went there you know tackled that assignment but it

16:07 but i did it because i wanted to get a different perspective nobody told me i had to go do it um no you know nobody

16:14 specifically asked me i said hey i want to go do something internationally because you know again like in today's world and

16:20 for like my children going to do something internationally will be like like it's not even a thought they just

16:25 that's what they would do um but considering where i grew up and what i knew about like it like it took me my

16:33 sort of initiative to go get that done and everybody's got their own story that's mine um

16:40 but it just it's an example of you know going and trying to do something early on that i thought would pay

16:45 benefit to me and not only did i i learned a lot i had a ton of fun um you know people thought you know people

16:52 thought it was you know it was great that i took on that and then and then that you know that opens up other

16:57 doors and you know those are the kinds of of decisions that you need to make in

17:02 your career in your life in order to you know to follow the journey that you want to follow and

17:08 that's you know that's one of my stories i would share i love the way you said tapestry in

17:14 terms of your trajectory looking at different pieces and you know not looking at things in a linear fashion

17:19 but almost always most importantly you were learning and adapting and trying willing to try new things right whether it's you

17:26 know taking an international trip and go take a assignment far away from where you've been for the

17:32 rest of your life or you know taking up a new opportunity in a new company i think so there is a definite amount of

17:37 risk taking as well as you know finding a true north through that tapestry in many ways that's very very very profound

17:44 to hear um a slightly different question on the same path right now you reach this you

17:50 know amazing you know it's probably the pinnacle of your carrier there is much more to be had for you but

17:57 this is such a amazing position you are in and as a person of color how how did

18:03 you find things for you you know how was it easy was it difficult to navigate was

18:08 it um you know it was completely new to do whatever obstacles you had how to overcome that

18:14 is there a a certain aspect you can share with us in terms of that journey

18:19 you know you you bring up an important point minoj being a person of color

18:25 definitely has different challenges as well as opportunities in

18:31 one's career and so some of those challenges and opportunities are related to the topics we were

18:37 speaking about earlier access being one

18:43 access not only to basic things potentially like broadband or technology but also access to people and networks

18:51 that you know that would that would bring you along or who might encourage you or teach you

18:58 to follow a certain path in your life so that's a really important piece of it exposure is important right you don't

19:04 how do you know what careers to pick if you don't know those careers actually exist and as a child like you learn you

19:10 get exposed to different things and over time you can you can make better choices

19:15 about what may or may not be available to you and generally speaking this isn't true for everyone but

19:22 you know unlike people of color generally aren't in all the same networks that you know would lead them

19:29 into careers in technology careers in cyber security

19:34 and so this is where we have work to do right we have work this is back to

19:40 educational opportunities this is back to where do companies like microsoft or juniper recruit for people you know to

19:48 come join the company once people join the company how do you create opportunities inside the company for

19:55 people to thrive and do their best work how do you create networks of family familiarity that help

20:01 people be comfortable and do their best work here's an important you know here's a a story i would share or an example in my

20:09 own life that i would share that's helped me you know when i went and when i went my first job

20:14 you know i i you know there there weren't a ton of other there weren't there are a few others but just a few

20:20 other african-americans at the same firm that i joined when i got out of college

20:26 however there were a lot of princeton people a lot of people who had gone to princeton before so what was interesting

20:32 is while i didn't have a network necessarily to rely on that was robust of other african

20:38 americans i had a big princeton network and that matters um now think if you're the if you're the

20:43 sole african american somewhere and you went to maybe a college or a university that wasn't a mainstream you

20:51 know sort of recruiting bed for the company you've joined you might feel a bit isolated and this

20:56 this is a good example of you know we need to when we don't we can't just focus on

21:02 who we're recruiting to an organization we have to make sure that once we recruit someone and they're an

21:08 underrepresented minority that we also are thoughtful about the networks that they'll have the support systems that

21:15 they'll have once they arrive at a company so that they'll get the opportunities if things if they need to

21:22 learn something who do i who do i ask questions of when i'm not sure about something because everybody you know

21:28 regardless of your the color of your skin or your gender um you you're going to have questions

21:34 you're going to have challenges but the people who who thrive are the ones who are able to tap into their networks

21:40 they're able to get answers to their questions people give them a helping hand along the way

21:45 and we shouldn't take those things for granted because they're not that playing field for everyone isn't level and it's

21:51 not necessarily unlevel because somebody chose to make it that way some of it's historical some of it's some of it it is

21:58 because of just the way organizations have been formed over time but you know one thing that we can all

22:04 do is work to level that playing field sort of exposing that and in

22:09 conversations like this so that you know as we build our our systems as we recruit people as we bring them into our

22:15 companies you know look you're a leader at your company you know like one one

22:20 one one thing you'll do is go reach out to somebody to help them along because they'll see seek you out as a leader who can who can

22:27 help them in their career like but these are all things that we all have to do individually but systemically

22:32 it's very important as well yeah you covered a lot of topics there in terms of you know getting people

22:39 empowered to come into the workplace and thrive right you know how do we provide a a system where there's mentorship

22:45 there is a support system to you know for people to kind of engage so that they can thrive in that environment i

22:50 also love that example you gave right you know when you when you started you know you were the first sort of

22:56 african-american in that community you know in the company you joined but there were a lot of other princeton

23:01 folks so you used the challenges and opportunity right in many ways right you know okay i could use the tap on the

23:07 princeton network and then build on right so in many ways i think for every challenge there is an opportunity for

23:13 every cloud there's a silver lining right i think again your your approach to life comes through there too right now what you mentioned

23:19 earlier about your tempest tree you're looking at in another linear path and you can always look at the possibilities

23:25 and it's for you to take advantage of that but as rest of us we need to provide that

23:30 you know support system for people who are coming you know coming in in a sort of a diversified environment and give

23:37 them the ability to grow and thrive so that's that's great i i'll tell you that i did some homework

23:43 on you oh you know i know you and i know each other for quite a long time but i did a little bit of reading up on your

23:49 you know profile and whatnot and recently i kind of noticed a couple of aspects right one is the philosophy you

23:54 kind of you know leaning leaning forward on in terms of leadership agility and

24:00 also english inclusive leadership right the combination of leadership agility and inclusive leadership so that seems

24:05 to be something unique you're bringing to the table and you know something which you are kind of your passion also

24:11 coming through very clearly there what do you want would you want to share something about that especially in the context of this diversified workforce

24:18 absolutely i mean look i i am leadership is is is changing

24:23 like like as we speak you know the the requirements of leaders

24:29 are are changing they're in influx i mean we the environment around us is changing the expectations of leaders are

24:35 changing you know the the speed of innovation and change in in our industry

24:41 is only increasing that puts different requirements on us as as leaders and so

24:46 yes i believe in a few elements of leadership that i think are are important and this is certainly not exhaustive but you know i do believe

24:53 it's important to be inclusive in your leadership style i mean look you know

24:58 companies need and this is this is something that that's proven over and over again

25:04 is that you know leaders who find ways to create inclusive environments for people

25:09 with different points of view backgrounds um and and and all in different just

25:15 diverse perspectives are going to are going to ultimately deliver

25:21 better results all other things you know being reasonably constant um i also believe very much in in servant

25:28 leadership you know i believe that you know the best leaders there's there's there's good leaders who

25:34 may not consider themselves servant leaders but i think the best leaders are very servant leader oriented in the

25:39 sense that they they focus on putting others out in front they po they focus on how they

25:45 build up other people around them and they focus less on themselves it's about the organization it's about the team

25:52 um it's about how can i remove roadblocks and obstacles for others as opposed to

25:57 what you know sort of what can i do for you as opposed to what can you do for me um

26:03 and that's you know i think i think you know i i've had the privilege of working for

26:08 as well as with a number of great leaders and i will tell you the ones who

26:14 had that mentality really are the ones i think have found the ways to unlock the best in their people and their

26:21 organizations uh and do it in the right way i work i work for one right now he's uh he's

26:26 that's who he is as a leader and and obviously none of us would argue that he's one of the best at what he does

26:33 um you touched an important point about teamwork makes everything happen right you know if you can enable your team to

26:40 thrive you know you're doing a fantastic job as a leader i think that's what you said talking about inclusive leadership which

26:46 you touched on you know to to kind of encourage this you know what are some of the skill sets uh you know people need

26:53 to have to evolve to this kind of leadership which you're referring to i think one you have to hold yourself

26:59 and your organization accountable to be inclusive um and that's you know

27:07 inclusivity is a set of behaviors right it's cultural uh and you know culture's something that

27:12 you drive it's i mean it it'll happen to you if you don't sort of actually

27:17 actually work on your culture but i think inclusivity is a cultural element and part of that is how you operate as a

27:24 leader it's what you expect um in terms of you know how you show up at meetings how you personally include

27:31 people in uh you know sort of in interactions you know in various ways those could be

27:37 formal they can be informal it's rewarding others for you know having the courage to and

27:44 the bravery to to speak and speak up when when needed i think

27:49 it's about making sure you have the right representation sort of it's hard to be inclusive if you don't have

27:54 anybody there to include who's who's from a diverse background so representation of folks from a diverse

28:01 background is really really important and you know a good example of this is that you know you've gotta you know rep

28:08 in order to get the right amount of representation just given the natural uh or the i would say the existing state

28:14 of tech requires that you have goals around you know sort of bringing people in from

28:20 different backgrounds um but much to the conversation you and i have been having here

28:26 it's not just about uh representation it's about you know getting you know helping people thrive

28:32 and grow because you can you can recruit people to an organization earlier in career or later in career but if you

28:39 don't but but you also then have to provide mechanisms support systems that allow them to thrive so that they grow

28:46 their careers and they can become highly contributing members to the organization and then that you know sort

28:53 of that ability to thrive be gets others like them who are able to thrive and

28:58 that's really when you know that your leadership style is inclusive when you've created an environment not just

29:04 where people will sign up but where they stay and they do well and they're part of the success of the organization

29:11 very well said chris because you're talking not just about recruitment of people you're talking

29:17 about how to make them thrive and you as the leader providing that environment where they can thrive right and most

29:23 importantly it also talked about the accountability part measure what matters right if you're going to aspire to something hold your

29:29 organization responsible for it and you yourself hold yourself accountable to it so that is very well said

29:35 uh in kind of closing out i mean we are living in a very interesting time once in a hundred year pandemic

29:41 uh you know look at you know recession you know you know kind of peeking at us from from somewhere inflation at a multi

29:49 you know four decade high right now and a raging war too right it's a very very

29:54 different place than you know some of us are used to in the last you know two decades or so uh in this changing world you know

30:02 for technology professionals do you have an advice on how we can help make the world a better place

30:08 you know i think technology is actually one of the the ways in which we can

30:13 work our way through the challenges that we have today manoj and so in some ways

30:19 i think we have a unique challenge and opportunity as technology leaders to lead through

30:26 what we're doing now like like microsoft our mission like this is one thing i do love about microsoft i joined during the

30:31 pandemic but our mission is to help you know every person and organization on the planet achieve more

30:38 and you know if you think about the role that technology companies us

30:43 juniper many many others included played certainly in the early part of the

30:48 pandemic when everybody went immediately remote the cloud our tool sets

30:54 video capabilities you know that allowed us all to keep working in a way that you know was trying to keep people safe

31:00 right so they could be at home they could be distributed um you know in many ways

31:06 the the capabilities that were provided by our technology companies were really

31:12 really important to our ability to navigate through the pandemic now if you look at what

31:18 we're facing today inflation um you know labor market challenges

31:24 like you say conflict in in uh in europe you know we've now

31:29 the opportunities we have are are they're changing right and now it's about how do you improve productivity

31:36 how do you help organizations move quickly how do you help organizations be more agile to meet the needs and the

31:43 challenges that we face seen as well as unforeseen that we'll get to

31:48 um in the future you know cyber security near and dear you know you and i both

31:54 share that as as a as an element of what we care a lot about and you know

31:59 for example you know microsoft played a role in in the protection of critical

32:04 infrastructure in the ukraine you know throughout the early parts and and you know ongoing in the conflict that that's

32:12 happening with russia and so you know that's the kind of role that technologists can play you know

32:18 there may be a very direct role like you know protecting critical infrastructure during a war like microsoft's doing

32:24 today um and then there's also the longer term elements of how do we leverage the power of the cloud you know

32:30 to help organizations move faster be more agile cut cost

32:36 uh you know i i just i think those are all some those are all the kinds of things that we can do

32:43 as technology companies and the last thing i'll say is it's back to a little bit of something you said a while ago which was

32:50 technology is a much more integrated aspect of our lives certainly than it was when when i was growing up

32:57 or when you were growing up and we have an opportunity to shape uh trends we have an

33:04 opportunity to be part of to lead the change that we want to see and uh you know i think we need to take

33:10 that responsibility very seriously not just you know delivering product but helping to make sure that we're good

33:16 stewards of the technology that we you know as we bring new capabilities to bear we do it in the right way with the

33:23 right principles you know that help people thrive and and become you know sort of a leg up for society not

33:29 something that's a challenge chris there were a lot of thoughtful comments to this entire conversation thank you

33:36 for spending the time with me you are always a class act you're welcome back anytime

33:42 have a great day manoj thanks very much i my pleasure great to talk to you as always and uh

33:48 uh happy to be the first uh first guest thank you