The Green Network: Q&A Feat. American Tower Corporation, BT Global, Juniper, Verizon & Weaver Labs

0:00 foreign [Music]

0:07 welcome back to the Telecom TV Summit on the green Network and our live q a show

0:13 I'm Guy Daniels director of content and this is our third and final live q a

0:20 show of this year's Summit well today's panel discussion looked at Energy

0:25 Efficiency targets for new infrastructure and we have already

0:30 received questions from you on this and some of our panelists are back with us now to help answer them but there is

0:38 still time for you to send additional questions however you do need to act

0:43 fast please use the Q a form that's right here on the website

0:49 and as always your co-host for the Q a show is Ray lamatra editorial director

0:54 at Telecom TV Ray this whole Summit has looked at efficiencies and targets and

1:01 best practices and whilst green energy and alternative power sources are

1:07 important elements I'm really pleased that Turco is looking at a much broader range of solutions to enable the green

1:14 Network yeah absolutely guy and thankfully those Solutions have been in development for

1:20 quite a while already we saw some of them at last year's mwc in Barcelona for

1:25 example uh while we'll also we've also seen some power generation and storage technologies that previously were the

1:33 reserve of developing markets now being considered in the rural areas of developed markets too which makes a lot

1:40 of sense the Big Challenge now as Network operators develop more distributed networks is to do all of

1:47 this in a way that doesn't cancel out what's already been achieved I'm sure we're going to be talking about that

1:53 during today's session yes absolutely and it's going to be

1:59 interesting to hear what our audience thinks about this thank you for now Ray

2:04 okay let's meet our guests and we have an absolutely Stellar lineup for today's show joining us live on the program are

2:13 Sarah Khan who is senior manager for Global digital sustainability at BT

2:19 global Beth Cohen sdn product strategies at Verizon

2:25 Irene Zhang director of product marketing Cloud Metro and security at

2:31 Juniper Networks Toyo e big Bibi who is VP Innovation and

2:37 strategy energy at American Tower and Maria lemur who is co-founder of Weaver

2:44 Labs hello everyone it's really good to see you again lots of audience questions for us to get through so let's get going

2:52 and over to you Ray for our first question okay thanks very much guy and the first

2:58 question from our audience today is as follows the question is what do you

3:03 anticipate will be the impact of edge data centers on the profile of power

3:09 consumption so what kind of impact will Edge data center proliferation have on

3:15 power consumption Network operators um Beth maybe we can come to you for a

3:21 response to this one first yep happy to to address this you know

3:27 obviously telecoms in general are are living The Edge so to speak you know we

3:33 have um hundreds of thousands or possibly millions of access points particularly

3:40 if you figure in the infrastructure to support mobile networks and um so the

3:49 way I see it is that um certainly uh you know it's it's um

3:54 it's a game of whack-a-mole basically which is that um you know as you move power out to the

4:01 edge you're reducing your power needs in the at the core

4:06 um but at the same time core power generally is greener

4:12 and it's more efficient because um you know the core data centers can tap into you know um

4:20 hydropower or you know other types of power that you know at the edge you're you have more limited access to uh so I

4:29 would say in general it's a wash okay it's a whack-a-mole wash

4:35 so that's uh yeah it's a it's a tough one to uh to juggle there isn't it I

4:41 mean it's certainly can have some kind of impact um we're going to come to Maria next and then to Toyo so Maria first

4:49 um yeah so I think it's a very interesting question and I just want to chip in with some of the findings that

4:54 we have had based on edge deployments for Smart City applications um very much focused on the use of

5:01 private networks so when when you go to the edge and

5:07 um you add that level of granularity you also have more control over the power of

5:13 those resources and the the the fact that the ad

5:18 um kind of like distributes the whole network a lot more um you can act on the different level of

5:25 resources that you have more independently than when you have more centralized deployments uh distributed

5:32 networks will allow us to power on and off our assets based on the needs and

5:38 the congestion therefore Edge can be a way to to reduce power consumption uh

5:46 when I aided with a proper technology to do so you know in terms of intelligent

5:53 data Gathering and also enforcing all of those decisions onto the the elements of

6:00 the ad but definitely more granularity can help us uh distribute the the workload better and be more more

6:07 intelligent and how we distribute the power of resources as well

6:12 okay thank you Maria and uh Toya let's come to you next no absolutely it's it's a fascinating

6:18 question I think two things that from my perspective are table Stakes are the

6:24 first is The Edge is still uh nascent um and as as both Maria and bethes have

6:30 alluded to the Smart City applications there's um you can think about it from a

6:35 radio architecture Network perspective as well and some people argue that the edge is at the cell phone so the point

6:42 there being that the edge is still being defined as we think about this question and the second one it's very use case

6:49 dependent and so there are a couple of ways to think about what you will do at the edge from a data center or compute

6:56 perspective the first is what I've just mentioned it's Computing and think about you know from high-end analytics to

7:03 basic uh Network functions from a radio architecture perspective that required different levels of energy density

7:10 there's also storage so think about your content distribution networks think about the ability to cash at closer to

7:18 the customer or the end user so you have lower latency and easier streaming or

7:23 use of of these platforms and the third one is is networking and it ranges from

7:29 high-end Network functions to transporting think about optical fiber and so when you think about all these

7:34 three different use cases or or modes of you deploying Edge data centers there's

7:40 a whole bunch of applications that are still being developed if you think about the metaverse if you think about low

7:46 latency and high-end gaming for example that are going to dictate the amount of energy consumption that are linked to

7:54 this use cases so a typical rack you know at a core data center could range depending on density from about five

8:00 maybe even two if it's really a low compute needs to anywhere between 20 to 30 kilowatts of density per rack and as

8:08 you think about these different use cases and you start to distribute this infrastructure to the edge it will be a

8:14 game changer in terms of how we think about the the energy consumption that will need to power all these different

8:19 use cases so I guess the first point is it's being defined so there's going to be a lot of unopen or unanswered

8:26 questions around the role Edge data centers will play with Energy Efficiency but as I can see from the way the

8:32 industry is trending the focus is on making these infrastructures that are deployed on the edge efficient so that's

8:39 a good start and then the second one is it's going to be use case dependent you could see Edge data centers ranging from

8:45 100 kilowatts to up to a megawatt so a massive range in terms of deployment

8:51 space availability and capacity requirements and what it will take is really an ecosystem of service providers

8:59 content distribution networks infrastructure providers like the likes of American Tower and other members if

9:05 you think about OEM manufacturers that produce these equipments and servers manufacturers as well to come together

9:12 to help Define The Edge and make it energy efficient as we evolve towards

9:17 the edge yeah a great answer there to you and I

9:22 guess by the time we do get to a scenario of you know tens of thousands of edge data centers

9:30 in any particular Market the whole industry from the chip vendors to the system vendors uh the the server

9:38 developers the application developers everything will have moved on and much more towards greater Energy Efficiency

9:45 so uh really interesting one to track and I'm sure we'll come back and talk about this at next year's green Network

9:52 Summit as well okay uh fantastic start to the show guy over to you for the next

9:57 audience question yeah thanks Ray and you're on your last point there I'm sure we will because

10:03 we've had several related questions about the edge come in so we'll definitely be following up on those uh

10:11 next question here um we heard today on the summit of some

10:16 smart innovations that can help with green Network goals plus the need for

10:22 more software-based solutions is Network optimization perhaps the easiest or

10:28 quickest way therefore to reduce energy and Emissions well uh Maria perhaps you

10:35 could start us off with this because we we heard from you um earlier about an hour or so ago about this uh very

10:40 subject um yeah sure I have to take this one

10:46 um in terms of innovation that can help us um be greener at the end of the day the

10:52 software tools that the the telecoms industry are building right now are helping us be more efficient with our

10:58 assets and efficiency goes hand in hand with uh you know helping reduce that the

11:05 emissions and getting closer to your The Net Zero approach that we want to get

11:10 there so um at the end of the day what software is going to give us is information

11:15 and potentially the tools to act on that information in a form that we can act

11:22 with a certain policy and that policy can be uh you know reduce power or um

11:28 direct traffic to areas where we have more um access to renewable energy

11:36 um so the point is that software can help us build that information gathering and act upon the other thing that

11:43 software can help us do is infrastructure sharing which of course it's it's another way of of reducing our

11:51 carbon emissions and and being more efficient because we reduce the overbuilding

11:56 um we can reuse assets that already exist and potentially are underused

12:01 um and also we can increase the efficiency of those assets by having more tenants on them so and and software

12:09 can help onboard customers faster it can help us go into more infrastructure as a

12:15 service business models um and access infrastructure opportunistically where we need it so

12:21 definitely software is the way to go because as much as we can we can look at

12:26 in being more efficient in in um you know where do we draw the power we have little control on that right

12:33 like that is up to the energy sector to give us the tools on the renewable energies and the clean energy that we

12:40 are consuming but then what's on our agenda is to try and make the most with

12:45 the resources that we have and potentially looking at new deployments how can we actually act on on those

12:52 resources in a much more efficient way and if something we can learn from from

12:58 the cloud is that it enables us to be way more efficient and all of that is is

13:03 based in software so I'm a huge believer that actually software is going to be

13:09 the the way to go and looking at the recent advancements on AI and how data

13:15 fabric can actually help uh make all of these Intelligent Decisions

13:20 um that's that's also based in software so yeah absolutely software is the way to go and network optimization will be a

13:26 result of that thank you very much Maria um sounds very encouraging indeed well

13:33 this question is obviously uh struck a nerve with a lot of you because it looks like I think you all want to to contribute and to this question so first

13:41 of all let me go across to Sarah for for your comment server yeah absolutely I mean just to build on

13:47 what Maria is saying you leveraging software you actually gain visibility of

13:52 assets you you didn't have visibility of before and that enables you to start making some informed um actions so what

14:01 what are you actually optimizing for the the first one is well if you if you have visibility of devices that are sat there

14:07 in idle mode is there a better way of leveraging those assets is there a way of powering them down

14:14 into the deep sleep modes another option is to optimize for matching with renewable energy on the grid so as Maria

14:20 said you know data sources from the local grid providers will become critical and being able to match when

14:27 you run your networks run your workloads and applications over the networks to match renewable energy on the grid gives

14:33 you the potential to lower your overall carbon footprint so I think software Solutions is is absolutely key and

14:40 probably the critical enabler actually to to help towards organizations either

14:46 reducing their energy consumption or working towards um decarbonization

14:53 oh interesting observations there thanks very much for those um Irene let's come across to you for

14:59 your comments yeah um definitely agree that software play a huge role right and um in terms

15:07 of whether optimization depends on how we look at it one is for accessing network with software that you can

15:14 improve the utilization rate that and make it more efficient or okay when it

15:19 hotter that's one way and the other is where if when you have software that

15:25 allows you to um to apply sleep mode for parts that you that it doesn't need to

15:32 be on all the time and uh that way you can also save energy

15:37 the part another point that I wanted to add is that when you have existing

15:43 network with software you can optimize to improve the energy usage but don't

15:49 stop there um because uh there's only so much there will be certain percentage that you will

15:56 you will hit and that will be um with software only so as we think

16:01 about long term there's always important to think about how software and hardware and all the also the power supply all

16:09 things to consider for the maximum Improvement for power efficiency

16:16 good points I mean we should not forget uh Hardware then hardware and software working together

16:22 um it's all about optimization it sounds uh thank you for those comments uh Toyo let's come across to you next please

16:30 absolutely I think that the points really really resonate with me that some of the other panelists have brought up

16:36 the only sort of addition to the comments made that I would add is I'm beginning to see and it it less so in a

16:43 4G world but certainly in a 5G environment a lot of the software optimize optimization historically so

16:51 this is you know pre-5g has really been in microcosms and if you look at it

16:56 specifically let's look at the the Telecommunications Network um because it's carrier grade

17:02 infrastructure in Second To None um you look at the Rand and you look at the central offices and you look at the

17:08 core and they all somewhat operated you know in in in microcosms or the

17:14 interconnected but in terms of the efficiencies and the softwareization of that that leads you to drive increased

17:20 efficiencies which will lead to lower energy consumption I'd historically seen that in microcosms and the mobile

17:27 network operators over the last couple of years certainly not starting you know anytime soon I've spent a lot of money

17:33 and time and resources virtualizing their whole network stack from the core to the edge and what that means is

17:40 you're disaggregating to the point that Irene just mentioned the hardware and the software functions and allowing for

17:46 a lot more think about you know the hyperscalers the containerize containerization of of software

17:52 applications and and compute resources and if you can disaggregate it the

17:57 software and the hardware component such that you have a lot more efficiency all across the network value chain your area

18:04 under the curve to optimize increases so that's the only comment I would make is it seems like the evolution of the

18:10 network is with virtualization and software defined networks are even

18:15 pushing higher degrees of efficiencies on a broader scale as opposed to in microcosms that would lead to a

18:22 potential reduction in overall energy consumption of these networks over time

18:30 thank you Toyo for for that uh so about taking more of a holistic approach

18:35 across the entire network rather than um as you say a modern microcosm approach

18:40 that we've seen in the past uh Beth let's come across to you to um wrap up

18:45 comments on this question then please uh so there's been a lot of threads

18:51 um you know and I think people have touched on Irene touched on the hardware aspect Toyo touched on the on the

18:58 overall aspect and uh and Maria touched on the on the uh AI aspect and and I

19:06 think that we're still very much at the beginning stages of of tying these all

19:12 together and not to not to say that I'm not optimistic we'll get there I think we're just not there yet and

19:20 um and and so I've been working currently on uh some AI work around uh networking

19:27 and networking efficiency and with optimizing networks using AI you

19:35 need to know what you're looking for and it's not clear that we do yet to know

19:42 what we're looking for networks tend to work you know have pretty steady state workloads so yes virtualization

19:49 certainly helps at least to to a certain extent by you know maximizing the use of

19:55 the hardware um but you know virtualization does not really address uh you know some of the

20:03 other um workloads related to changes in workload over time which um you know

20:09 networks don't work that way typically so you know the jury's still out I think

20:15 in terms of being able to take advantage of AI to to drive

20:22 green efficiency so you know yeah I'm looking forward to it but I I don't

20:28 think we're there yet no thank you very much Beth um and I I

20:33 think it's been refreshingly honest throughout the three days of of this Summit that so many of our guests have

20:38 said there's a huge amount of work still to be done um we are still quite a distance away

20:45 from knowing exactly what we need to do let alone achieving it thanks very much for for those comments everyone uh Ray

20:52 shall we move on to our next question yeah absolutely and you know I just want

20:57 to say as well great point from Beth there the reason we're getting so many questions in for this Summit is that

21:03 there are so many questions sill to us so much still to be done so uh you know that's why we fully expect the green

21:08 Network Summits to uh to be running for quite a few years yet

21:13 um so let's move on to our next audience question and that is uh should all

21:20 Network operators be mandated to share their physical infrastructure in order

21:26 to reduce the Telecom sectors carbon footprint uh well this seems like a bit

21:33 of a devil's advocate question but here it is so let's start with toyo

21:39 absolutely and thanks for the question I think you know never really efficient to

21:44 mandate um anything really um because there are challenges in terms

21:50 of the incentives and and what are what are we trying to solve for uh

21:56 individually and holistically so I think mandate's a very strong word what I will

22:01 say about this is I think and and Irene touched on this during the panel which

22:07 is they're business models that key operators around the world so not just

22:12 on North America because the energy landscape globally it does vary based on geography and regulation uh there are

22:20 key problems that operators are looking to solve and from my landscape I can I can boil it down to two the first is uh

22:28 Energy Efficiency and cost efficiencies linked to Energy Efficiency specifically and the second one is sustainability so

22:34 making these assets these networks a lot more greener than they used to be historically what we have seen is

22:42 sharing economics Works uh to to help solve for those two uh problem

22:48 statements on a broader scale tends to be you know Case by case as I mentioned

22:53 based on the geographic nuances and the operator needs and whether you're deploying it at the back row base

22:59 station or Telecom Tower or you're looking at a data center or Central office for example all the different

23:06 needs of the operator need to be taken to consider into consideration but in

23:11 largely in a large if you look at it in a broad brushed way sharing economics does reduce the overall energy

23:17 consumption it does lead to the opportunities for you to deploy more green energy to support a broader base

23:24 of customers than a single customer and we've seen this with the tower infrastructure but to the point that I

23:29 really touched on the panel I say this only works if the business case works it has to be win-win for both the operator

23:36 and the vendor that is supplying a shared infrastructure solution to the operator I think oftentimes people look

23:43 for a solution trying to solve a problem and oftentimes it it leads to a lot of

23:49 operators choosing to self-perform or do it themselves because whatever solution is put in front of them is not specific

23:56 to their need so I think for us to be able to go to a point where shared infrastructure from an energy

24:02 perspective becomes more vendors like the likes of tower codes like American Tower or other

24:09 infrastructure providers need to think about win-win business models that

24:14 generate efficiencies for both you know the vendor supplying that solution as well as the operator that needs that

24:20 solution to be able to really unlock the the the benefits that come with shared

24:26 infrastructure specifically within energy okay yes great points there Toya thanks

24:32 very much and uh uh we've got a lot of uh a lot of panelists wanting to respond

24:37 to this once we're going to come to Beth next before Maria so Beth

24:42 uh so I'm I'm speaking from you know the Telco perspective and you know as Toyo

24:48 mentioned uh you know telcos are already heavily

24:54 regulated and uh be careful what you wish for uh and I think that

25:02 um as Toyo mentioned mandate is a very um fraught word and we are actually

25:09 motivated to be green uh for you know there's plenty of of you know Financial

25:16 incentives um to reduce our footprint uh so that alone can can really drive it but it

25:23 also needs we also need to work hand in hand with with the hardware providers uh you know

25:31 because you know we don't we don't build our own Hardware we obviously buy it from other people or other companies and

25:38 the other companies need to be motivated to reduce the carbon footprint and and reduce the energy consumption as well so

25:47 um as was mentioned during the panel we need to put it in our rfps to say hey

25:53 we're going to we're looking at you know one of the criteria for buying your equipment is going to be

26:00 you know reduced energy footprint because you know yeah maybe you know

26:06 your energy cost is a one-time cost but our energy cost is an ongoing cost so

26:12 you know for us to you know so we get a higher value out of reducing the energy

26:19 consumption of Any Given piece of Hardware so it's a business decision

26:24 um and you know we can we absolutely support uh the you know reduction of

26:30 carbon footprint and and higher Energy Efficiency but I don't think it needs to be mandated

26:37 okay great point so Beth thanks very much um Maria let's come to you next

26:42 yeah I think it's a general sentiment that the word mandate it's a little bit strong in this case

26:49 um I believe in incentives and incentivizing infrastructure sharing is what we should be doing as an industry

26:55 and from government and Regulators also communicate the what what is the good

27:02 side of of infrastructure sharing and and worthy incentives Lie from from an

27:07 industry perspective right so there is of course a cost reduction there is an efficiency of assets there is the whole

27:14 you know wholesale model that it's very much outdated and slow so again bringing

27:21 back the topic of software it's it's how do we make all of these agile and flexible so that infrastructure as a

27:27 service is appealing um in order to fulfill with those incentives which are cost reduction and

27:35 efficiency Improvement on on the assets themselves but it all comes down again

27:40 to to the business model I don't think that the model of infrastructure sharing

27:45 it's it's valid for the entire network and infrastructure sharing is a model

27:51 that that it's it it's good for certain areas of the network and we should be

27:56 flexible enough uh to adopt that model in in areas where it is and also as Beth

28:02 was saying look at other ways of reducing carbon footprint with more efficient Solutions when we we do not

28:09 want to share infrastructure in certain areas of the network by you know having more control over over the power

28:15 consumption and having more control over those assets but yeah I guess the message here is uh last mandate more

28:22 incentives and competitiveness in the market so that we are all pushing the same direction rather than just pointing

28:29 fingers okay great thanks and yeah it'll be interesting to see what happens in

28:34 Malaysia with the single 5G Network that's going to be shared and how that

28:40 will pan out in the next few years uh Sawa let's come to you next

28:45 yeah thank you I mean what I would say is is there really a need for

28:51 um as something mandatory actually many of the telcos around the world are setting Net Zero targets anyway and and

28:57 many are aligning to the science-based Target initiative the spta and as part of that the driving transparency

29:05 so one of the commitments one of the requirements there is to disclose scope one two and three emissions and within

29:12 scope two um there's a there's a requirement to look at the electricity usage across the

29:18 networks and what percentage of that is covered through uh renewable energy so there is already some level of

29:24 visibility that is accessible to customers accessible to investors and and shareholders through initiatives

29:31 like the sbti and organizations reporting on Net Zero and organizations

29:36 also have the opportunity to report into external ESG type of platforms such as

29:42 the climate disclosure project CDP and they can provide the information in terms of electricity usage percentage of

29:50 Renewables covering the electricity usage across their networks across to their supply chain and to their customer

29:56 base as well and and I think that's that route is probably the the best way for

30:01 driving telcos to to provide that information yeah absolutely great points so um a

30:09 great selection of answers there and very clear from all sides of the fence here what the the way forward would be

30:16 in in that kind of scenario but uh also a very interesting question as well so

30:21 at this point guy I'm going to hand back over to you for the next part of the program yeah thank you very much road because

30:28 it's now time to check in on our audience Poll for this year's green Network Summit one question seven answer

30:36 options and of course you can pick whichever ones you feel are the most important and the question we are asking

30:42 this week is how can telcos most effectively reduce their energy consumption levels and you can see the

30:50 real time votes right here and of course the numbers indicate the percentage of

30:57 respondents who selected each option which is why they don't all add up to 100 so for example we can see that oh an

31:04 overwhelming 72 percent of respondents have said Source more power efficient technology as a solution and if you've

31:13 yet to vote then please do so because obviously the more votes we get the better but don't delay because we will

31:19 close the polls tonight and then we'll hand it over to Ray to analyze it on

31:24 Telecom TV okay talking which we've got about another 15 minutes or so remaining so

31:31 back over to you Ray okay thanks guy and it has been really interesting to see how the poll results

31:36 have developed through this week as more and more people have voted that uh Source more power efficient technology

31:43 from vendors option has been the most popular one from the get-go but the votes have been creeping up all week for

31:49 use Ai and data analytics for real-time operations management what's most

31:55 shocking of course is that someone or more than one person has voted for the option do nothing Energy Efficiency

32:02 plans are not ultimately beneficial I'm hoping such votes have been cast for a

32:07 joke if not then shame on you I say and we'll be sending Greta around to have a

32:12 word with you if you voted for that okay on with the show now next audience question uh and here it is and this one

32:19 refers back to the executive interview that guy conducted with Lauren Le Boucher from Orange's Innovation

32:26 networks unit earlier in the week and the question is the orange the orange

32:32 executive said that operators should extend the lifetime of their Network equipment to make their networks more

32:40 green but does this really stack up isn't older equipment more power hungry

32:47 um so I'll get back to that interview with Lauren from Orange there Irene

32:53 maybe we can come to you first for for this one absolutely so when we think about this

32:59 question we need to think about what's the overall objective the over objective is make the network green and make it

33:07 more sustainable reduce the negative impact to the planet right and so while

33:13 power efficiency Energy Efficiency is a very um uh obvious way that we should

33:20 optimize and consider and very clearly align to the objective but sometimes

33:26 there are also other ways to accomplish objective and if we overly only focus on one part only focused on the power

33:33 efficiency we might lose sight of the others so what I exactly mean by that is

33:40 that for making a green the network more green or Greener that think about also

33:45 how we use longer like the components the equipments in the network that we

33:51 can make it more sustainable and use longer so while individually the individual device may use

33:58 higher power per se and still that's why measurement is important look at the numbers but if you instead of using the

34:06 equipment and we will replace every three to five years if you can extend it and use it much longer for 5 7 10 or

34:15 even 10 plus years that way that means that you you don't need to replace and

34:21 buy a new one every couple years and think about it from an analogy for consumers right we all have phones and

34:28 many of us laptops and tablets and one way that we can contribute to the planet

34:35 and reduce our carbon footprint is instead of replace those those devices every two years perhaps that we can use

34:45 it longer and also when we buy new ones to consider how how much longer that it

34:50 can use so that we can make more conscious decisions so those are the things very important to consider and

34:57 another thing is that for those equipment if it's only looking at the scale up option then yes it is it it

35:04 would be um how hungry uh individually but then if you are transition to a

35:10 scale out architecture where you add capacity horizontally and that way

35:15 um you can accomplish the capacity uh and also adding on those new equipment

35:21 and still remaining that that equipment so they extend the lifetime and you get

35:28 to the bandwidth need and also the power efficient the power consumption will not

35:35 be as um as hungry so to summarize is it's important to

35:42 consider it's not just overly just focus on the power but also the overall with the the reducing the E-Waste with X by

35:49 extending the lifetime of equipment yeah absolutely and I think you know uh

35:55 just to hop back to that interview Lauren from Orange was saying was referring to the carbon footprint uh

36:01 impact so bringing everything uh into play there and also talking at the same time about the ReUse of equipment across

36:09 the uh the orange group as well so bringing an awful lot of factors there but a really interesting discussion to

36:17 have their great points Irene uh so well let's come to you next yeah I mean this is this is a really

36:24 interesting topic actually if you look at the carbon footprint of a typical networking device then 90 of the overall

36:30 emissions actually sits in the in-use phase I so when it's consuming electricity only 10 of emissions is

36:37 allocated on average to the embodied emissions so what what is included in embodied emissions in a life cycle

36:44 assessment you would include everything from raw material extraction through to the emissions embodied at the point of

36:50 end of life so I guess if the question going back to uh you know understanding the carbon

36:57 footprint really every operator or every organization who was looking at this

37:02 they would have to perform a life cycle assessment to understand is there a way of reducing the in-use emissions so is

37:09 the older devices capable of going into deep sleep mode low power modes Etc if it isn't then

37:17 actually it'd be more efficient to actually replace those with devices that have those capabilities because again

37:23 going back to that 90 of where the emissions sit on top of that if you want

37:28 to retain the devices in the network for longer to reduce E-Waste You could argue

37:34 having 100 renewable electricity is powering the networks would also contribute to lower emissions so that's

37:40 potentially another way around around this and keeping devices in the ground for longer but actually many

37:47 organizations now including from a BT perspective we're able to return devices

37:52 to vendors there are schemes available and accessible for organizations to do that and they can ensure that devices

37:58 avoid landfill they can either put it back into reuse or they can recycle it and that actually gives you a positive

38:05 impact on your carbon footprint so overall in in summary really it's the the truth is

38:12 um you have to assess on um an account by account basis and and perform that

38:18 life cycle assessment to make a decision in terms of whether it's better to replace the device or whether to keep it

38:24 in the ground for longer okay great Point sir so uh thanks very much uh we're going to come to Beth next

38:31 and then to Toyo so Beth uh so I'd like to add on to to both

38:37 Irene and Sour's points uh they're um often and and

38:43 equipment that's been around for the last at least 15 20 years has generally

38:50 has the capability of going into uh into some kind of sleep mode uh which of

38:56 course reduces the power consumption uh which gets back to you know how do you do that and of course our earlier

39:03 conversation about software right so software is going to be how you how you put the hardware into

39:11 sleep mode or reduce power consumption so that's how you can get more

39:16 efficiency and and of course there's there's another factor in the life cycle

39:21 of maintaining the the hardware for longer which is of course there's a cost

39:27 to replacing the hardware somebody has to you know as we call it in the industry truck roll you know we have to

39:33 send somebody out to wherever the equipment is located where you know particularly in in you know where it's

39:41 um cell towers or or a mobile network it can be you know scattered

39:47 wherever like polls top of church towers um you know expensive places to send

39:54 people to change out that equipment uh and you know energy expensive too right

40:00 you know there's an energy cost to you know putting somebody in a truck driving

40:05 out to the location you know getting up to the top of the the light

40:11 pole sticking it on Etc so all of these do contribute to the cost of

40:16 Replacements so there's very definitely a financial and

40:22 um energy efficient um incentive to increase the length of

40:29 the life cycle of that Hardware you know if we can replace you know increase it

40:34 you know from three years to six years there's significant there's still

40:40 significant reductions particularly if we can use software to to reduce the you

40:47 know the reduce the the footprint the the energy use footprint of the of that Hardware

40:53 yeah absolutely all great points there Beth thanks very much uh Toya let's come to you for the final comment on this

41:00 question absolutely yeah I really enjoy the the comments from the other panelists that

41:06 the life cycle comment that Sawa mentioned is one that I want to build on with a specific example so uh in in a

41:13 previous role I spent a couple years in our Africa business managing our our operations where we do provide energy as

41:21 a service there to our you know customers at our infrastructure Telecom infrastructure sites and the life cycle

41:27 of how you look at from a cost and also asset life and and efficiency

41:33 perspective really does help make these decisions a little bit clearer so I'll

41:38 give you a specific example we were looking at replacing the backup batteries at all sites and with the

41:44 options of lead acid or lithium lithium as we know gives you a lot more

41:49 functionality in terms of the ability to cycle um and it takes a higher charging

41:55 current it has a longer life cycle compared to lead acid and you could do a lot of things in terms of energy

42:01 optimization with lithium versus lead acid which has a sort of high lower thermal Runway and can lead to a lot of

42:07 you know hazardous uh scenarios if not managed properly or at all and one of

42:14 the things we realize is if you look at it over a three year period you're probably better off buying lead acid

42:19 because of the cost of lithium which is anywhere between 20 to 40 percent more

42:25 expensive than some of these vrla batteries but if you look at the features that come with a longer

42:31 lifespan so if you look at over a 10-year period you could probably use that specific lithium battery for a

42:37 longer life cycle so the replacement cycles and the benefits of managing that new equipment over a longer period

42:44 starts to kick in in year four year five and in the the outer ears so just a comment to say that you know rip and

42:50 replace is a question that often gets asked for multiple reasons Energy Efficiency being one of them cost being

42:57 another maximizing asset value and you know return and investment on the capital another one but what I have seen

43:03 is that that life cycle analysis if not duly considered will make that decision

43:09 a lot less a lot less accurate because oftentimes people look at it on a

43:14 short-sighted or sort of a shorter window largely sometimes linked to their contractor obligations so they don't

43:19 have a have a choice but if you look at it on a longer term Horizon over a longer life cycle you begin to see a lot

43:26 of the efficiencies that come with some of these newer equipment so just a specific example to show how life cycle

43:32 analysis helps with deciding whether or not Ripper replaces is a better energy

43:38 efficient to cost efficient strategy for a network provider not necessarily answering whether one is a better one

43:44 but saying that there's a key variable to the equation often gets underlooked but makes a big difference in the

43:51 overall deciding factor okay excellent responses there to that

43:56 question thank you all for that great insights uh guy back over to you and are

44:04 we starting to run out of studio time now we are Ray thanks very much we're almost

44:10 at the very end we only got a couple of minutes to go so I think we so it's it's time for one of Telecom TV's legendary

44:15 quick fire rounds so um as briefly as possible please so so we can get some uh

44:21 a range of responses in Here's the final question of this year's Summit are we

44:27 starting to view Energy Efficiency as perhaps preferable to Pure Performance

44:34 when it comes to selecting new Telco infrastructure so there's the question

44:39 is it is it have we shifted from it all been about power and performance to actually just how efficient is this what

44:46 you know maybe this is a change we're seeing or or not any of our panelists

44:52 want to venture a comment as to whether that's actually happening in the industry now

45:02 thank you very much that's got Maria first and then over to Beth yeah so I think at the end of the day

45:10 it's always cost um and and it is about creating that that that you know the value between how

45:17 much does it cost us to build and maintain a network and how much money are we making out of the network so

45:22 performance drives the cost on you know how much money are we taking out of the network from the service perspective if

45:29 we drive performance up where we should be able to sell more connectivity and

45:34 therefore make more money if we are more efficient with our assets and we drive power down we're driving costs down so I

45:42 think like at the end of the day as an industry we're trying to find the balance between how much do we invest

45:49 on the other hand how much the return on the investment um it's coming so at the end of the day

45:55 it is the same it's the same question we're trying to answer but from from a different angle

46:02 ah nice thank you very much Maria uh Irene I think you want to come in on this one as well

46:07 yes um so I would not say Energy Efficiency has replaced uh performance

46:13 for when the selection but it is becoming very critical that we've seen

46:18 over the last two years the for most or almost every ifp that the Energy

46:24 Efficiency has become a top top criteria and from what we heard if render does

46:30 not provide sufficient details about that then it would not get selected or

46:37 it will not even proceed to the next step for the bidding process

46:42 oh that's interesting insights Irene thank you very much for that so much more more um importance given to Energy Efficiency

46:50 at Beth comments from you please um you know I'm again I'm from the Telco

46:56 perspective and yeah Energy Efficiency is certainly nice but performance is

47:01 still the overriding factor I think and and um you know I'll give you an example

47:07 which is uh it PCS used to have 640 K of

47:12 RAM and that was considered oh amazing we'll never fill that up ah no

47:18 whatever bandwidth we can produce it will get filled up by our customers

47:26 certainly well it's been going that way hasn't it Beth thank you very much indeed well it looks like um that solar

47:32 comments we have for that final question um which is handy because we are out of time uh thank you so much to all of our

47:39 guests who joined us for this Live program today and to our audience for sending in those absolutely terrific

47:45 questions and that is a wrap for the green Network Summit for this year but

47:50 Ray and I will be back next month for spotlight on 5G yeah wow time for yet another our third

47:59 Spotlight on 5G and there's still so much to discuss of course uh we'll have

48:04 our extra special 5G hats on during the next four weeks or so and be reporting

48:09 on all the main news from the show floor at mwc in Barcelona bring on the

48:16 albondigas and Rioja I say absolutely I'm going to place my order right now so please join us next month

48:23 for spotlight on 5G our online coverage of mwc and until then thank you for

48:28 watching and goodbye foreign [Music]